Just substitute the word “conversation” in your head each time they say “argument”
So much of the “conversation” on the social web slash web 2.0 isn’t really conversation. At best, it’s a series of parallel monologues, occasionally overlapping or feeding each other. Or, they are (almost) nothing but superficial fluff, with the puffed up posture of “making a difference” or “changing the world” or “doing my part”.
Bullshit. Text posted to the internet (including this post) is just text. It’s not changing the world. It’s not making a real difference in the way we actually live our lives. It’s what we choose to do with the ideas floated around that can make a difference.
Conversation, on the social web, doesn’t really exist. It’s a mirage. An illusion. A shared mass delusion. And as long as we continue to participate in that delusion, we’re preventing any real, deep, meaningful conversations from taking place.
But D’Arcy,
Words do matter, they’re the leaky containers for ideas, and while they don’t always mean, they do trace an attempt to try and create meaning. And that attempt is an act, and it may not always be understood as real, deep, meaningful conversations, but there is no way to rule that possibility out when someone tries to create meaning. I guess the reactionary response to the web and the lack of conversation makes me wonder why the hell one would post at all. It can;t all be meaningless, cause that would just make you like Uli from the The Big Lebowski, and soon you’ll be walking around with a pet marmot on a leash. Don’t go down that road, please 🙂
I’m not saying words aren’t important – they are – but what’s been bugging me is the superficiality of so much “conversation” online. I don’t know if it’s a new thing, but I’m really noticing it lately. I’m convinced that twitter is harmful, because it lulls people into thinking they’re having conversations when in fact they’re doing something that’s the exact opposite.
If this post doesn’t matter then why am I interested in hearing more about your thoughts? I see a post like this as potentiality for a conversation. The fact of the matter is that it may never happen between you and I — it may start a discussion I have in class tonight, or at lunch, or … see what I mean? These words do not go into an empty room, they go into the tubes that carry them to our RSS readers. Sometimes they lead to a discussion with the author, sometimes with others, and many times with no one. The question I walk away with is even if I am not amplifying the post with a comment, it is resonating in my head where I churn on it. A conversation with one self perhaps?
maybe, but what I’m seeing, specifically on twitter, is fast torrents of information (mostly links) without real context, without any depth or substance. sure, the links may prompt some later thought, but largely what it does (in my mind, anyway) is to devalue the content of the links (without context, all links are presented as equal, although some are more “important” than others – a social justice article presented sandwiched between links to the latest youtube viral videos…)
I’m not saying the words and posts aren’t important, just that we’re not really doing what we think we’re doing, and superficiality reigns supreme. That’s really bothering me lately.
Maybe b/c there is such a big Twitter community here at PSU I find that it does lead to quite a bit of meaningful conversations. Twitter acts as a prompt and a conversation starter — most times the conversations moves to hall talk, emails, or saved up discussions when we see people face to face. There is a fair amount of links flying around, but that is mostly noise. With that said, even that sometimes leads to real discussions.
I’m not arguing that with you.
The issue seems larger than just Twitter or meaningless conversations. Isn’t it really a question of how we choose to spend our time? In my case, for example, I’ve never tried Twitter, Facebook, and a host of other 2.0 stuff …. because I know it would drive me crazy. I’d rather miss the experience entirely so I can spend my time in a concentrated way on something I find important, rather than be picked apart in dribs and drabs here and there in hopes of an occasional nugget. It seems even larger than this, however. It’s conferences and presentations and articles to write and airplane miles to log and family dinners to miss. Everyone makes their own compromises. Mine have now gotten to the point where university employment became too confining. Good luck D’Arcy. I hope you can figure out something that works … not that it will work forever, but just for a while is nice.
I’d further Jim’s line of thinking, and what you’ve already conceded (or offered additionally). Yes, speech without action often seems pointless, and there is a great chance of being lulled into a state of consensus and inaction. And, we need to be cognizant where our speech is affecting others negatively or perpetuating a state of inaction, not only for ourselves, but in others. Twitter, blogging, other forms of “social” media can have this effect, but they are not exclusive to these mediums. Teachers have been lulled to complacency through staffroom “conversations” for years.
That being said, speech/conversation is the beginning to all important action, and helps us rationally (and in some cases collaboratively) address the problems of the world. Lyotard used “to speak is to fight” along with the ideas that consensus is oppressive and that invention (or innovation) is born through dissension. Conversation is powerful, you already know that. And I agree, what we call conversation is often not anything like that … sort of how we throw around the term “communities”.
But I’d also suggest that what one person views/perceives as noise, may in fact be construed as conversation to those most closely engaged by it. What’s noise to some may be meaningful to others, and to those, may in fact provoke action.
This post is important, and I hope that you reflect on it further.
ok. maybe I’m a little “out there” with this post. I’m not trying to say that words are meaningless, or that words don’t lead to action. just that it seems as though words are devalued, and very little actual action is seen. it seems as though words are seen as action, or actionish. they’re not. they’re a starting point, but if people (myself included) stop at just posting words and links, without continuing on to meaningful, effective action, then all is lost.
I certainly know what you meam and twitter epitomises it well. However, I’m with the others on this. Conversation is about an exchange, but that might take many forms and directions as had already been noted. It might also take a long time. We have got used to micro-time and instant replies. Your last response was 5 days ago, and now it has engaged me, caused me to react. And now that this small conversation has occured I am bound to bring it up elsewhere.
if words turn to action, that’s fantastic. my discomfort is based on my perception that often words are where ideas go to die. Words are not action. Words are not the end result. They are an intermediary, and need to be seen as such. Stopping at posting a blog entry, or sharing a link, or anything else that is mere wordage is inaction, or worse. If people have the perception that it’s the words that matter, and that all they have to do to “do their part” is to share the words, we all lose because the real actions aren’t taken.